Members Present: Mona McCready, Carol Merrill, Jennifer Morin, William Barnett, Gabby Daneault, Robin McAfee, Thomas Gilligan, Peter Viar, and David Eaton

Excused Absent: Tom Irzyk

Unexcused Absent: Robin Pelletier

Others Present: David Jodoin, Dan Howe, Larry Anderson, Shawn Mulhulland

Jennifer called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.

Jennifer stated that Ben Fontaine had resigned from the Board and that Brian Duchesne was on a leave of absence.

Peter made a motion to accept the minutes of the May 20 meeting, Dave seconded, the motion passed unanimously.

Jennifer stated that there are now two open positions on the Board and the third open position being Brian Duchesne. Brian left on July 7 to attend basic training for the Army National Guard. He expects to be returning the first week of September. Jennifer felt that he would not miss much and everyone agreed, therefore, he will be on a leave of absence.

Jennifer stated that Dan and Larry were here to become members of the Committee. She had two Certificates of appointments and asked the members for nominations for Dan and Larry and that they would be sworn in at a later date and would not be able to vote tonight.

Peter stated that both of these gentlemen had come before the Board of Selectmen stating their interest to be on the Board and how they could be of help to the Town. They were both received by the Selectmen as good candidates. The Board of Selectmen are excited when they can get people with experience and who understand the process, the Board spoke with them as they do with any potential board member about the need, and to make sure they understand what they are doing in participating, that they do not vote for something if they do not understand something and either abstain or ask questions.

Peter made a motion to nominate Dan Howe to the Budget Committee, seconded by Mona. The motion passed unanimously.

Peter made a motion to nominate Larry Anderson to the Budget Committee, seconded by Dave Eaton. The motion passed unanimously.

David J. told both new members that they have to come in to the Town Hall somethime in the next week to see Ed Cyr and formalize the nominations.

Jennifer asked for nominations for the meeting secretary. Mona is no longer interested and is looking for a replacement. This position includes posting meetings in two locations, taking roll call and marking down the votes. It is not writing all the minutes of the meetings. If no one is interested, maybe we could all take a turn being the meeting secretary, but we need someone.

Mona also sends out the e-mail reminding everyone of the meetings. David J. asked if she had e-mailed everyone on the list regarding tonight’s meeting. Yes, but apparently no one received it.

Dave stated he would not mind taking the position since he is taking the tapes home anyway. Jennifer stated that nothing has to be transcribed, it is just in case it does not get on the tape or is not heard, the vote is recorded. Dave asked if Mona does the agenda. Jennifer stated that she usually does the agenda and then passes it out. Dave asked if the agenda is placed on the notice?

Tom G. stated that the agenda is on the notice if it is a specific meeting to discuss a specific budget item like, if it is an emergency vote for a fire truck, etc. then that needs to be in the public notice.

Jennifer nominated David Eaton to be meeting secretary, seconded by Robin. The motion passed unanimously.

Jennifer thanked Mona for all she had done as Secretary to the Budget Committee.

Dave notified the Committee that if they wanted the tape for this meeting to be transcribed, it will not be done in a week because we are going away. Is two weeks fine? Jennifer said she would never say it was not. Dave stated that he was aware that the tape is supposed to be transcribed in seven days. The tape will then be left at the Town Hall and can be picked up when we return.

Jennifer then reviewed the subcommittee assignments. There have been some changes since the last meeting. Just to review

Fire – Brian and Dave

Police – Gabby and Jennifer

Highway – Mona and Peter

School – Bill and Ben

Sewer – Tom and Robin

Executive – Robin P. and Carol

Tom and Jennifer have traded subcommittees. Since Brian is on leave, he should be replaced since we will be having subcommittee meetings with department heads soon and Larry and Dan need to be assigned.

Tom G. stated that Art Houle had called him a couple of weeks ago and stated that they have a new subcommittee for the building project. It may make sense to have the executive people sit on this committee, but Art had asked for representation from the Budget Committee. Jennifer stated that if the meetings were not at 3:30 in the afternoon, it would be a lot of easier to do that.

Jennifer asked if this is going to a regular get together meeting, so maybe it should have different representatives. Shawn stated that he thought it was going to be a long-term process, but not great frequency. For a while it may be once a month or every couple of months, but it will probably be a yearlong process. Shawn will be doing most of the footwork for the committee so they don’t have to do it, so they are there to make proposals and whatever change are appropriate. Larry asked when the meetings were. Shawn stated that they have been at 3:30 and 1 in the afternoon. Larry asked what day. Shawn stated that they have meet on Tuesday, next week the meeting is on Wednesday to see the facility design it will be at 1 p.m. Larry stated he would have no problem meeting with the committee at that time.

Shawn stated that this is really a facilities committee, it is not only for the police department, it is for all departments in Town including Highway. Peter stated that it is not a department, he will be going the meetings and can report to the Budget Committee on what is happening on this committee, but he cannot to during the day and has asked that they move the meeting to evening. Dan stated that he is also available during the day. Peter stated the visits, etc. will depend on a part of the committee to participate in the visits and then present this to the bigger group. From a decision standpoint, it will be driven by the Selectmen and he said he felt it would be better to do meetings, like analyzing the data and making decision at night when more people are available. This is a significant project and some of the people involved feel that we may have to step back and start the project from square one. There have been a couple of opportunities with land that has come forward, and people get excited about that opportunity, especially when it is free, but sometime free is not perfect.

But there is a lot to do and there will be quite a few big ticket items that will be presented to this Town in the next five years. We keep talking about school additions, but we will also need a new sewer treatment plant and a Town garage is also needed and it is kind of sad that the PD is downstairs. So there are many things to address and we will try do this very methodically. The last thing he wants to do is rush through these decisions because they are all big ticket items and we need to find out the best way to maximize out investments and we need to find a way to start putting some money away.

We can ask for a big bond issue, and they typically do not do well in any small Town. We successfully did the fire department by squirreling away some extra money every year, it worked and that was how the Town ended up building it. So from a tax impact, it was a far less painful. Peter’s goal is to try to build whatever needs to be built using some of the same philosophy. There may not be enough time to put all the money we need to, but he wants to get as close to that philosophy as we can. He does not want to go to the people for a $2m bond issue. This Town jut can’t afford it right now. If the State was doing the thing that they need to do that would be different, but they are not and it will not change tomorrow. We need to find a way to deal with these issues as painlessly as possible.

Peter stated that he would be happy to bring the information back from the committee to the Budget Committee to keep them abreast.

Jennifer started that Art is the Department Head and is he schedule these meetings through e-mail? Shawn stated that things have been kind of rough right now and hopes things will change to work smoother in the future. If Art asked him to schedule the meetings, then he will.

Tom G. stated he would like everyone to fill out the sheet he has listing name, phone number and e-mail address, he has sent numerous e-mails and they have been returned. He would like updated information tonight and then have each person state whether they would prefer to be contacted via e-mail or phone. This way no one will have to scramble to try to reach subcommittee members. Tom will then copy this sheet for all members. Jennifer stated that Mona had sent a sheet around already asking for updated information.

Jennifer stated that we have then added a subcommittee for the new Facilities Committee and Larry and Peter will be on this subcommittee. Jennifer asked Dan if he would be interested in being on the Fire subcommittee. Dan stated he would be willing to help wherever he is needed. Dan stated he was a Captain in the Manchester Fire Department for many years.

Jennifer asked how many people had been contacted to attend a subcommittee meeting. David J. stated that we are just beginning to get the budgets into the Selectmen based on the requests, then they will then find out all the totals and then they will sit down with the Departments sometime in September to formally to through each budget.

Jennifer stated that she thought they were going to meet with the Departments earlier on to get a feel for their requests all they way through. David J. stated that last year’ budgets are the same as this years. Jennifer stated that may be so, but we will still sit in the meeting in December and … David J. stated that if they go to the Selectmen’s meeting while they are going over it, they will get a line by line discussion. David will notify everyone when that will be and they can come to the Selectmen’s meeting on a particular date.

Jennifer was contacted and attended a school meeting only because it was last minute and Tom did not have his list and he was not sure who was on the subcommittee. It was the meeting when they found out that the State funding was going to be less and what were they going to do. It was more listening to their discussion and there were no decisions made.

Bill stated that someone will have to take Ben’s place on the school subcommittee.

David J. asked how the Committee wanted to handle the Capital Improvements requests? Do they want to do Department specific when they come forward if there is anything they are looking for such as capital reserve or large ticket item purchases, handle it the same night? Yes.

Jennifer stated she would fill in for Ben on the school subcommittee.

Jennifer asked David is there was anything he wanted to alert the committee about regarding the Town Expenditures. He stated that the Town has put some money aside for the landfill at the Highway Garage. There are about 10 engineering firms who are interested in doing some work at the landfill. They will have to do some test pits, and then the pits will be tested annually. We need to have a plan to close and cap the landfill should the test results come back with high levels of contamination. The Highway Garage will have to be moved eventually. It could be a bond issue that will have to move forward at some point in time. To get the appropriation and approval to borrow and sit on it because, when it happens we must start work right away. We will try to get some low interest loans and grants, he is going through proposals now and will narrow it down, ask for RFP’s showing the costs. But they have to start at the beginning and have a closure plan. There is some money set aside, he did not know how much of that money will be needed on the study.

David distributed budget that he had printed today, but he has not had time to review them yet.

Jennifer explained to the new members that they Committee looks at these budgets and they check to make sure that for this time of year, the percent left is appropriate. If a line has been overspent, the Committee will ask why. Some of the items are one-time expenditures, such as the Town Report.

Mona asked if the Property Insurance line was for everything? David stated that it is for the Town including the Sewer. The Sewer reimburses the Town a portion of this expense; a $6200 check will be coming from the Sewer Department and going back into that account to offset it.

Tom G. asked if this was this year’s Budget? David stated yes, Tom G. asked about the Planning Board legal expenses. David stated that the PB Legal Expenses is as of today’s date. The last one that you have is as of July. Tom G. stated that he thought that they had budgeted more than that, but he may be thinking of the 2005-year budget. David J. stated that they had increased this amount for next year. The zoning board will be budgeting some money for consulting and legal next year.

Peter stated that the developers reimburse these fees, they look ugly, but they are really not.

Jennifer asked about the Vehicle Repairs – Fire Department, are they just holding off on getting things fixed or did they luck out on repairs. David stated that they were told to watch the bottom line on the budget. David stated that they are doing pump testing this week and Engine 4, which was repaired last year may have some compression issues. Peter stated that they have been trying to get the Fire Department to gradually do things and to keep an eye on their expenditures. He was sure that the funds would be spent by the end of the year.

Mona asked if there was supposed to have more money in the cemetery budget? David stated that all these budgets reflect the default cuts. There were cuts made to electric, fuel, etc. and these line items will go over budget by the end of the year.

Mona asked if the Fire Department hired the two people for the summer. David stated that they tried running the stipend program but it has not been really successful. There are only two or three people who volunteered for the program, so the program was pushed off and they are looking at another program that the Selectmen have some information on.

Carol asked that since the Budget Committee recommended that they not do these programs, why did they do them anyway? David stated that ultimately, it is there bottom line of the budget, they decided when they went through the default budget that it was something that was important to them, then they put it in.

Carol asked why people’s voices did not count? Jennifer stated that the Committee had voted that line into their budget. Tom G. stated that the line item was much bigger at the beginning. The Committee said yes to the stipends and there was another item for two more full time people in place of the stipend that the Committee voted out.

Jennifer stated that the Committee had told the Fire Department to try the stipend program on the weekend.

Peter stated that every department has the ability to juggle funds within the department and spend them the way they deem best. If the Board of Selectmen think that someone is not being judicious and we think they are overspending in an area where they should not be, we certainly call them to task on it. But with the default, we are trying not to micromanage anyone. They all have to make due with what they have this year. They do have the ability to juggle between lines as long as they don’t go over the bottom line.

Carol stated that there are some things that the people don’t approve of and they go ahead and keep doing it, I know that this is the thing that bothers the Town people the most.

Jennifer stated that there were not many people at the hearings speaking their minds.

Tom G. stated that he felt it was more of an education issue. We don’t educate the Town well enough as a Board, we really don’t do a very good job of publicizing and education with all of the Town, now just the people we do go home and talk to in our own communities. We need to get better at educating the advantaging of passing whatever budgets we spend tons of time on because we did have some very good discussion and a lot of late night meetings and we really did widdle it down.

Most departments did a really good job at sticking even or having very minimal increases. And those that did not, the Selectmen had first whack at and then we as a Board had second whack at and we did widdle it down a lot. The increases that we had, minus maybe a couple for the School Department, which was a separate budget, were pretty minimal. We need to do a better job, as a Board, of understanding the impact of a default budget and then turning around. Because as you keep having default budgets and you have this even line, all these other funds, like the facilities, the capping of the landfill, like the sewer department expansion, all of this stuff has a very nasty way of catching up with you. It will come to a point, where the Town will have an opportunity and they won’t have the ability to say we don’t want to pay for this. Because State and Federal agencies will start coming in and say that what is being done is illegal and you have to change this and remedy it right away. We don’t want to face that, because it will come to a point where we can’t afford to have this stuff done, but a bond will be forced and we will have to come up with the money.

We need to do a better job of understanding what a default budget means and then educate the Town as to why they need to pass the budget that we spend four hard months looking at. Personally, he was a little frustrated as the fact that the budget was defaulted. Of the individuals that he spoke with, it did not seem that they had enough education behind their decision. To everyone $1 means a lot when it comes to taxes and times the reevaluation that most people were hit with last year. When you look at what is behind that and what’s behind multiple years of a default budget, it is an expense that no one will be able to afford.

Tom G. asked what the percentage of unspent money was, David J. stated there is about 36% left. Tom G. asked where the Town was last year at this time. David stated that we have been pretty consistent. A large chunk to this is capital reserve money that has not been transferred and that will not be done until December 31. We are probably pretty close to where we were last year. We have not borrowed in anticipation of taxes yet, we have been able to maintain some things and hopefully will be able to continue that. Pretty much all the other large expenses have already been paid. Things are looking really good, but a lot of expenses will come at the end, such as encumbrances, there may not be a whole lot surplus.

Jennifer asked about the Sewer Waste Water Treatment Facility. David stated that they are trying to get together and communicate with Pembroke on an annual basis and make sure that everyone is on the same wavelength. They may be going for a bond issue this year. Tom G. asked what the bond would be for. David stated it would be for expansion.

Tom G. stated that recently there were efforts to create a new commission between the two Towns to work on these issues outside of the existing sewer commissions. Has this happened??

Peter stated that what happened was a joint Selectmen’s meeting about three months ago and a decision was made to put a subcommittee together to try to help weed out way through our current situation as well as where we want to take it. The committee’s forming was very mixed received by both Sewer Commissions, neither Commission went to either meeting. David stated that Pembroke’s commission showed up but our commission did not show up, which is something we were very disappointed at.

Very candidly, the discussion among the Selectmen was that we were tired of the Sewer Commissions fighting with each other and we even talked about, at some point, if we are not comfortable with this as Selectmen on both sides of the river, we will talk about not having a Sewer Commission and do it as a district and the Town takes it back over. He does not like people wasting money on attorneys because the two Town’s can’t talk. The Selectmen have no jurisdiction over the Sewer Commissions, they were formed and organized and the Selectmen have little to no say over the operation. Carol, if you thinks departments don’t listen, you should deal with a budget the size of the Sewer Commission when you really don’t have much to say about it.

We decided as two Boards of Selectmen to create that committee, it has not gone the way we would have liked it to but again, we are trying not to micromanage it. The intent was to send a message to both Sewer Commissions that we need to come to the table and be open minded and talk about how we are going to take this thing forward. The plan is sitting here and it will not make financial sense for either Town to take full responsibility for the Plant. Pembroke certainly does not want to build their own plant and have to float a bond for an entire plant. They will have to start ripping up the flow, clearly expanding that facility is certainly possible in my humble opinion, based on where it is and the property that is available to do it in and the fact that all the feed comes into that facility, why would you want to move it. It may sound simplistic, but his theory is, why put it some place else.

The intent of the two Selectmen Boards was to create a subcommittee to try to generate some interest, to try to keep it away from the negative connotations and generate some interest in how to take this thing forward and how do we, as selectmen, have an influence on where this may or may not go. You need to understand that we don’t have much authority to much of anything, but we have the authority to create the subcommittee to say we want someone other than the sewer commission to be looking at this. He does not think that either Commission intentionally argues with the other because that is what they want to do every day. But clearly it is public knowledge that there have been arguments over who owns it and who doesn’t.

Tom G. stated that this has been in the papers. Peter stated that he lives in Allenstown but owns property in both Towns, it would be a shame for Pembroke not to be able to put that 600,000 square foot AG building on Route 3. Even though it is Pembroke taxes, it affects us. At the end of the day we benefit from their development just like they would benefit from ours. He would hate for them not to be able to do that project and they have two other very large businesses lined up for the rest of that property. It is development that he would love to see happened because these two Towns desperately need that type of development, but the plant does not have the capacity, yes there is flow left. Is there enough flow left to do that type of development, 85 houses on top of Notre Dame, 120 houses on the back side of Broadway, who knows.

Whether we like it or not, it is just not fair for developers and other people who have invested money and energy and now we have another set of issues going on. The subcommittee is still in existence, but it needs some reinvigoration. It was designed to be a fact-finding commission, with sewer commission members from both Towns. The message was clear, this is getting out of control and getting ugly and we will try to bring it together and try to help.

Gabby stated that it cost thousands of dollars when they went to court. Peter stated that their argument was that it was not taxpayer money, but it really is. It comes from sewer fees.

Jennifer asked if there were any available budgets. David stated that the only ones that the Selectmen have not seen is Fire, Highway, and Recreation. David told them that if they do not turn in their budgets by September 1, they will get their default budget from last year. Peter stated that the Selectmen have already started looking at the budgets. David stated that once we get the other three, they can go to the Budget Committee so they can see a bottom line and then start setting up meetings in September to go through them. He will then notify each member of the appropriate subcommittee to come forward and start going through them. Ultimately there will be some last minute adjustments.

Jennifer stated that what the Committee wanted to get out of it this year is from start to finish and not trying to figure out who said what when and where.

David stated that there is movement right now that is going to through the default budget responsibility on the members of the Budget Committee to come up with the calculations. Some taxpayers on the Seacoast filed a claim about setting aside money for capital reserves; they are saying that it is illegal to bind future taxpayers with capital reserve money. The argument is how do we know who will be moving into Town in ten years and do we go after those 10 people who are moving in. Our default calculation is not like the majority of the communities that are out there because we can add contractual obligations. The only contractual obligations we have are things like tonnage. When the health insurance increases by 20%, there are certain things you can and can’t add into that, so we have the unfortunate problem that we can’t put as many things into the default calculation as other communities so it makes our spread always look that much more.

Shawn informed the Committee that the ball field was now leveled off and they have starting hydroseeding the field. The fence may be finished this year, we have gotten some new quotes and it may not cost as much as we thought because there may be some construction crews available through Keyspan Energy who can do this. They have already invested $80,000 into the project. Lou Conley has done a tremendous job on that project. We are working on getting some streetlights there also.

Tom G. asked what types of funds come from the Recreation Budget. Shawn stated that there is a capital reserve fund that was earmarked for the fence and it will cost a lot less than what we had anticipated. But there is not money being used from the recreation operation budget. When it comes to maintaining the place, we have agreements with the baseball and soccer leagues so that in soccer season they will maintain it and during baseball season they will maintain it. As for lighting, they have already been told that we will not pay to install lights. If they want that they will have to do it themselves. We do not want this to create a major operating budget issue for us in the future.

David stated that some funds had been encumbered a couple of years ago incase it was needed. We are trying to get things free or inkind donations. But there is $20,000 set aside that could have paid for the fencing or other work. But Keyspan has done an excellent job there. They ran conduit under the ground to run wires, etc. They are hoping to have the fields operational by next year.

Tom G. stated that in order for the facility to be maintained, he felt there should be a line item and when we get to that budget we can discuss it more. But he just wanted to make sure there are funds available because there are going to be times when money will need to be spent and as nice as the soccer people are and the baseball people are, they are non existent in the winter. If there is an emergency and he just wanted to make sure that the Town has funds available to dip into incase they need something.

Shawn stated that right now there is nothing there but a couple of streetlights, but there is nothing else to maintain. The parking lot will be closed during the winter. The only maintenance may be the fence in case someone crashes into it or something. The electric cost for the streetlights will have to be paid. There is no cost to maintain the streetlights there. The liability insurance will have to be paid also. There will be some no parking signs on the other side of the street.

Peter stated that they had also offered the Town a little bit more property if the Town decides that it is needed. We decided not to take it right now, because it is rather close to the neighbors.

Tom G. asked about paving. Shawn stated that paving was not considered. It will be a gravel parking lot. We will not be plowing in the winter.

Peter stated Shawn has also been very dedicated to this project. He has been working on this project for five years. Thank you Shawn for all you have done, you have plenty to do with your job and family and this has taken a lot of extra time for you and we really appreciate it.

David stated that the Board of Selectmen will meet again on August 23 but not again until September 13. Peter stated that they will start really working on the budgets. We told all the department heads to have everything in by the 1^st of September, but the Board of Selectmen are not meeting on September 6 because of Labor Day. Peter stated that he would not have a problem with meeting on August 30.

David stated that the Budget Committee needs to decide which budgets they want to see first.

Jennifer stated that maybe the committee could do Police, Fire, Highway. I just don’t want to do Fire last. Tom G. stated that Highway is usually pretty smooth so we could save them for last.

Jennifer stated that they would like to do Fire, Police, Highway. David will get in touch with the Fire Chief so he can be here for the Selectmen’s meeting then let Jennifer know.

Peter stated that they have already looked at a lot of the budgets. The Board of Selectmen gave them directions three months ago, telling them to be careful what they ask for and understand the default process. Some of the things that we have to put off, can wait a year, but eventually we will get forced. The Stated and Federal government this year haunted us on our polling place. We could have had to spend significant moneys to change the building in order to satisfy the feds and the State. So we are going to hold the elections at the school, but even holding them at the school, it will cost us a few bucks to do what we have to do down there. Those people don’t offer you an option. You get the letter and you have to go do it and they really don’t care where you get the money.

We all need an open mind on some of these items, because they are not going away, the landfill thing is not going away, the fact that the Highway garage is falling down is not going away.

Carol stated that there are some things that could wait. Peter stated that we all have to understand the consequences of a decision. Many times people have blinders on and really don’t understand the impact of a decision that is made on a line item.

Peter stated that we don’t want to be forces as a Town or as the Board of Selectmen or as a Budget Committee that have to go do some things like a $5 million bond. I know I go on, but I would rather beat something to death than shortchange it and end up having a vote that will kill us later. I want people to really understand what they are saying yes or no to.

The next meeting will be held on Thursday, September 9, 2004 at 7 p.m. Jennifer stated that the Board may be moved to 6:30 in the future.

Tom G. told Dave not to be shy about posting the meeting notice early. There is never a thing as over posting a meeting notice.

Mona made a motion to recess, Carol seconded.