Minutes – 9/22/2005
Allenstown Budget Committee
Members Present: Jennifer
Morin, Carol Merrill, David Eaton, Larry Anderson, Phyllis Parker, Peter Viar,
Jason Carrier, Sted Holton
Excused Absent: Robin McAfee
Unexcused Absent: Brian
Duchesne, Dan Howe
Others Present: Kelley
Collins, Dennis Carmichael
Jennifer called the meeting
to order at
Jennifer informed the
Committee that she had a letter of resignation from Don Chaput. She read the letter to the Committee. Jason asked if there would be a replacement
for Don on the school Subcommittee.
Jennifer stated that we could discuss that. She also informed the Committee that Dennis
Carmichael was here as an interested member of the Committee. He is here to observe right now and will let
us know at the end of he is still interested and we will then vote on his
membership.
Peter made a motion to
accept the minutes of the September 8 meeting, Jason seconded. The motion passed unanimously.
Jennifer stated that Jason
sent an e-mail to all the committee members the day after our last meeting with
some questions and requests. Jason
stated that the sent it to all members because he was not sure who else would
be interested in the materials that were requested. There was a request for the last three to
approximately five years worth of total budget amounts, if the budgets that
passed were default or actual voted for budget and then line items on a per
department bases compiled so that we could have opportunity as individual board
members, especially for individuals that are new to the board, would have
better feel in terms of projections and getting a feel for what had been spent
in the pass.
Jennifer stated that as far
as the total budget whether it was passed or went to default, that will be easy, the line items will be more difficult. Kelley would have to supply us with that and
with the current budget season and all the meetings, it would be out of scope.
Peter stated that they are
not adverse to the request, we just don’t have the
resources to try to get this information.
You are talking about the better part of a week to get this
information. Jennifer stated that it may
be better to try to get this information during March, April, May when it is not so busy.
Peter stated we may be able to get a temp in for 20 hours or so to get a
history together.
Kelley stated that she is
willing to talk with the MSI to see if it something she may be able to modify
an existing report easily to get this information. Jennifer will work with Kelley on the first
request for the next meeting.
Jennifer asked if the Fire
Chief had been notified about tonight’s meeting. Kelley stated that she had e-mailed him.
Jennifer asked Peter which
budgets the Selectmen had just reviewed.
He stated that they had reviewed Fire, Town Clerk, Finance and
Balloting. Next Monday they will review
Highway.
Jennifer stated that we can
then meet again on October 6 and review the Highway budget. She also informed the new members that the
Committee will probably not be voting on a bottom line until they get the
numbers from Penacook. We usually always
have to wait on those, but we can at least review all the other lines.
The committee will meet
again on
Jennifer stated that the
Ambulance can be placed on the agenda for October 20. Peter stated that there is a letter from the
Ambulance service which breaks down costs.
Peter stated that some other small budgets should be ready by October 20
also.
Kelley called the Fire Chief, he is at work and said he was never notified about
tonight’s meeting. The Fire Chief is
available next Thursday and the Thursday after that.
Kelley asked if the
Committee was going to finish up the Fire Department on the 6th and
also do Highway?
Jennifer stated that Highway does not usually take a whole evening.
On October 20 we can review
the Ambulance and Executive, if ready.
Jennifer asked if anyone
would be interested in taking Don’s place on the School Subcommittee. Larry is already on this subcommittee. Phyllis would like to take on this
subcommittee. Jason stated that both
Larry and Phyllis are welcome to come to any of the
School Board meetings, but he will e-mail both of them when the Board will be
discussing the budget specifically.
Jennifer stated that sending the agenda to Larry and Phyllis would also
be helpful so they know when the budget will be discussed.
Larry stated that he would
like an explanation of the Selectmen’s increases or decreases to the Fire
Department budget.
This line was increase to
bring the pay in-line with where it should be.
And if the Chief ever leaves it will be difficult to attract anyone for
the position at this amount of money.
Peter stated that the salary is really below most Towns. In Pembroke, the Chief gets a salary plus a
guaranteed 10-hour whether there are any calls or not. If there are 5 calls above that, he gets his
salary, his guaranteed 10 hours, plus 5 calls above that. This $9,000 salary is strictly the
administrative side of being the Fire Chief.
He also gets call pay just like everyone else. Peter stated that the Selectmen have trying
to work on this salary for some time.
You never know how many
calls you are going to have in one year, so you really don’t know how much in
part-time salaries will be spent. Based
on call volume and the fact that they have been able to rebuild their morale at
the Station and more and more guys are showing up for the calls, the Chief just
wanted to make sure that there was enough money in this line. The Selectmen approved it at $54,000.
Peter stated that the Board
tries to put a cap on some things so based on his current year to date
expenditures and his explanation relative to attendance being dramatically better
than it used to be, we saw a need for the increase, but felt the increase was a
little heavy.
Jason asked if the hourly
rate was only changed based on the 3% plus the additional 3 to 4% on the scale
that had been discussed during the Police Department’s meeting. But there may be more hours because more
people are showing up. Peter stated that
they don’t use a percentage when this is calculated. He uses historical data to calculate this
line.
Jason stated as far as pay
increases are concerned, the issue that was discussed in the past in regard to
maintaining consistency of the 5 to 6% across the board for all employees, just
to insure that it is being maintained in lieu of whether additional funding is
needed beyond the 6% because more people are actually showing up. Peter stated that this line certainly
accommodated the 6% increase. Larry
asked if this line is just for people who show up for fires? Yes.
Larry stated that on the so
far they have spend $35,677 on this line, but the Chief’s report said they have
only spend $28,000. Peter stated that
when the Chief wrote the budget in August the $28,000 was correct. The Chief believes that he will be really
close on this line this year and may go over.
In early 2005, the call turnout was really low, the call turnout stated
to increase over the past summer, they have done a good job with morale and the
stipend has worked very well. When the
stipend salary was moved from $25 to $75 he has someone taking every single
stipend call. People are taking the
stipend at $75 that were not taking it at $25.
Larry stated that in 2004
the Chief had asked for $48,000 and the Selectmen cut it back to $44,000. Right now he has 19% left to last him three
more months. Peter stated that is why
the Selectmen are increasing the line to $54,000.
Jason stated that if we are
seeing a morale trend with people showing up toward the end of this year and
that morale trend continues throughout next year, then we may above and beyond
what the Selectmen are putting forth.
Dave stated that if there
are less calls, then they may not spend as much. Peter stated that calls are a dartboard. He’s asking for this number strictly based
upon the increase in turnout when there are calls.
Peter stated that the Chief
had no problem with the $54,000 for Part-time salaries. Larry felt that if the turnout continues to
increase over the rest of the year and next year, then he will not have enough
money. Peter stated that this amount is
almost 20% over last year’s budget.
Larry stated if the Chief’s
wanted the $11,480 to increase the line to $56,000 and the increases in June,
July, August now goes to September, October, November, December at the same
rate, he will be way behind. Then
January, February, March, April next year, he will be way behind again. Dave stated that January, February is next
year’s budget.
Larry stated that if he
continues on at the same rate, it could be beyond that amount. Jennifer stated that she will let the Chief
know that he can be prepared to talk about this next week. She stated that from being at the meeting
with the Selectmen, the Chief was very comfortable with the $54,000.
Dave asked if this was to
have someone available when the full time personnel were not there? Jennifer stated that it was started for
holiday and weekends. There were having a hard time to have anyone show up at all, so
now there is an incentive for $75 and it is working very well.
Telephone – $500 increase.
The Board of Selectmen
approved this amount at $21,600; however, the Chief felt that by October 1 he
would have a final number. He felt very
comfortable with the $21,600. Peter
stated that the Chief felt this was the number or it could be a little
less. This is a contract number. Jason asked why the Chief asked for $23,000, Jennifer stated that he found out about the amount
after he prepared the budget. Peter
stated that the Chief had received a letter from Dispatch giving the amount.
Postage – they have already overspent more in half of a year
so they felt that they needed a little bit more in that account. Phyllis asked if postage was going up on
January 1, yes.
Gasoline/Diesel – The Chief asked for a $2,000 increase and the
Board of Selectmen raised the amount up another $1,000. The Chief was comfortable with this
amount. Peter stated that they Board was
trying to be a little on the high side for all Departments.
Jason asked if the Town
submits for the tax credit for the gas the Fire Department buys? Peter stated that anything that is purchased
municipally, yes.
Custodial Supplies – The Chief had requested $1,000, the Selectmen
reduced this to $750 and everyone was happy.
Food – for all new members, in case there is a big fire,
there is money to go to the grocery store for food and the Ladies Auxiliary
helps out with this also.
Personal Protective
Equipment – this line went
down. They were able to handle their
large purchases, so this will be just for some smaller items that they need
now.
Uniforms – this has an increase due to the increased number
of call members on the Department.
Other Equipment – this was reduced to $500 based on current
expenditures and there was not a problem with that reduction. Jason asked what the Chief’s impression was
regarding the reduction. Jennifer stated
that when he looked at the current expenditures and saw where he was he seemed
ok with that. Jennifer will ask the
Chief to also explain this line item.
Larry stated that he had
already spent $900 this year. Peter
stated that he had purchased some specific items that he will not have to
replace next year.
Equipment
Testing – The increase it in order
to test more extinguishers.
Computer/Software – no change
Jason asked why they
budgeted $1,500 in 2004, how much software do you need? Peter stated that they have a lease with Dell
and have bought more equipment. They
also have more software than in the past.
When the Selectmen authorized them to lease the new computers, they also
bought some software that they should have had a long time ago.
Full-Time Salaries – Peter stated that the Chief’s request for only for
a 2.5% increase and the Selectmen adjusted it for the additional increase.
Overtime/Coverage – increased by $2,000, this line covers all callback
for full-time as well as coverage for full-time vacancies, vacation/sick, etc.
Peter stated that this
amount was cut back based on year to date numbers. The Chief wanted $19,000, he had $15,000 last
year and we agreed on $17,000.
The Chief was very happy
with the package he was getting as far as people and salary.
Tool & Minor
Equipment – This line was increased
due to the request for a new vent saw and a new generator.
Hose & Fittings – this line went down because the Department made a
lot of purchases last year and this year they only felt they would need to
purchase two new nozzles.
Pump Certification – This line had an increase due to testing four
pumps at $225 each.
Rental/Leasing – there to keep the line open in case anything
happened and they needed to lease or rent something, then they would be able
to.
Photography Supplies – they have to take film pictures of fire scenes,
they cannot use a digital camera.
Fire Alarm Classes – the Chief felt that at this time, these classes
are not needed but still could be, so they are just leaving this line open.
SCBA Maintenance
Jason asked what this line
is for. Sted
stated that it is Self Contained Breathing Apparatus. Jennifer stated that this line has a $4,000
decrease due to a request to replace the aging one on a warrant article. Jennifer stated that there was some
uncertainty as to if the warrant article does not pass.
Sted that they could purchase two with the existing numbers.
Kelley stated that he also
applied for a FEMA grant for this and are waiting to
hear.
Fire Supplies - no change, this line is used for disposable
supplies, tarps, things that they need to use at the scene of a fire.
Training – Outside
Instruction – no change – this is
used to pay people other than themselves to do training.
Training – In House – this line was increased to $15,000 and the
Selectmen approved $12,000. Peter stated
that this is a negotiated number.
Jennifer stated that this line is specific to when the guys go for
training.
Radio Purchases
Peter stated that they need
to purchase some new radios. The
difference between his line and the Selectmen’s line is that he also wanted to
buy an extra gang charger for $1,200.
They have one now, but they will have enough radios where they could
utilize two, it really did not take a lot of negotiating. They will not be hurt without if, it is more
convenient to have two, but they felt they would be fine with a single charger
now.
Kelley stated that they have
charger at the station at on each truck.
If you go to a fire, you may be there seven hours and when the portable
radio dies, you can take the battery out, but the old battery back in and
charge it on the truck.
Vehicle Repair – no change, Peter stated that a lot of the expense
was rescue related, stuff that was taken off the
rescue truck and put on the new ladder truck.
The Chief was comfortable with this number and with the number for the
Vehicle Repair Parts line.
Electric - $1,000 increase.
Jason asked how the Fire
Department heats the building? Jennifer stated they have gas heat. Heat was also increase by $1,000. Jason asked if this would be enough? Peter stated
this is just like gas for the vehicles, we are trying
to be optimistic. Jason asked if
municipal buildings are able to lock in a rate for the winter. Peter stated that they do not offer that for
municipalities. Jennifer stated that it
is set up that the heat comes on to a certain temperature in the morning and
goes off at 4 in the afternoon, so they are trying to conserve.
Water – a $100 increase
Building
Maintenance/Repair – this line has
increase by $1,833. This increase will
cover a new stove, the stove they currently have is over 30 years old. Peter stated they have a very old stove, but
this is our EOC. In the Town of
Carol stated that there must
be a cheaper stove than the one that they want.
Peter stated that it is a commercial grade stove. A conventional stove is too small for the
space. Carol stated that they should
have a fundraiser for it. Jennifer will
ask the Chief to bring the specifications for the stove.
Jason stated that looking at
the 2004 approved budget it does not look like there is really a significant
changes with the exception of increases so when we say, people are really
trying to be thin, unless he is overlooking something in the 2004…
Larry asked if the 2004
budget was the default budget, yes.
Jason stated that his
understanding was that the Town as a whole is doing very well this budget year,
and he is just not seeing it in this budget.
It is one thing to talk about pay, where you can’t control the numbers,
but in terms of training, if you allocate $8,000 or whatever and you decide to
go above that amount, he would hope that departments would try to maintain the
numbers as to not run into problems to potentially go 10 to 12% over allocated
budget.
Peter stated that if Jason
is worried about him overspending the bottom line, it is not going to
happen. No one will over expend the
bottom line in any Department.
Jennifer stated that as far
as In-House Training is concerned, last year they budgeted for $8,000 because
he had 10 people always show up, now he has better morale and now has 15
people. It is not like he planned more
training, he just has more people coming.
Jason stated that his
concern is looking at what we are looking at this year and knowing that we
still have over a quarter of the year remaining. We are starting to get into the cold season
and people are going to start lighting up the furnaces. There is only 16.84% remaining when you
should have over 25% remaining, then you are going to be over budget.
Peter stated that there a
number of expenditures that are at 100% now that will not have any other
spending put on them. Peter stated he
has been a Selectmen for seven years and there has never been a single
department go over budget. The only one
who may go over budget is the Highway, because of the sand, salt and plowing.
The Highway Department put
on a spending freeze in July. He worked
about a two-month period where he basically spent nothing other than immediate
needs. Jim made this decision himself, the Selectmen did not invoke a freeze. The Fire Department also did a self-imposed
freeze for almost two months.
Jennifer reviewed the areas
that the Committee would like to Fire Chief to review, part-time salaries,
Other Equipment, Hose & Fittings, SCBA and Building Maintenance and Repair
in regard to the stove.
Larry would like to ask
about fuel. Larry stated that the bottom
line is only a 10% increase.
Building Maintenance – last year was at $200, requested $2,000, Selectmen
approved $800. Peter stated that the
stove amount is in three different lines.
It is in the Fire Department line, this line and also in Equipment
Furnishings. Kelley stated that the
stove is $833 in the Fire Department, $833 in Civil Defense and $833 in
Forestry. Jennifer stated that the
Forestry budget did not change. Peter
stated that it is in three lines and one of them is the Equipment Furnishings
where the line went from $600 to $1,433.
Sted stated that the stove is under Forestry supplies
also.
Jennifer stated that she
would prefer having the Chief go over the warrant article sheet with the
Committee.
Peter informed the committee
that when the Committee had their discussion regarding the Police budget, Jason
made the comment that we were talking specifically about the secretary
regarding the $2 increase. And someone
felt that we could do individual one off depending on their merit and we should
look at them outside the box. Peter
brought that up again and the Board of Selectmen has agreed that they will look
at these positions as an individualized case going forward. We may very well revisit the PD for that
individual person and if so then bring this back to the Budget Committee.
We can’t expect everyone to
get a get $2 or $5 or $6, but at the same time, the Board feel it is realistic
to take them on a case by case basis, based on their job responsibility, their
specific function and what they do in comparison to what the State average may
be for what they do and consider this.
The only that would come is the PD secretary.
Larry stated that we raised up the attorney salary but not the secretary. Dave stated that it was different. Peter stated that it was different,
the prosecutor took a $3,000 deduction during the default budget. We are talking about a specific increase on
top of the standard increase that the Town is putting in place.
Larry asked why Sted had not get sworn in, didn’t
he get enough signatures? No he did not, but now he has them.
Dennis had a question, the
Committee talked about Fire, Civil Defense and Forestry, is it all under
one? Jennifer stated that the same
person prepares the budget, but they are three separate budgets.
Dennis asked if the Fire
Chief is able to use the funds for anything, since there is probably 50% of the
Civil Defense and Forestry budget being returned.
Peter stated no, he does not
have the liberty of just using it, and there have been forestry expenditures
that have not been put on the line for some reason. We helped out at a forest fire in Hooksett
that probably used 90% of the budget.
Peter stated that the Fire
Chief controls these budgets, but not to the point that he can use it against
the fire department budget. They are all
separate budgets. The Civil Defense
budget may eventually become an EOC budget.
Dennis asked if there is an
extra amount of left over money that they can put to other use, can they use it
on a line that may go over. Peter stated
that they have within their own budget the ability to spend without
overspending the bottom line. We code
everything to the line it belongs to, if in November there is only $2,000 left
in the fuel line, they know there will be $1,500 left over, if he has an
expenditure that he did not forecast in his budget, he would come to the Board
and present a purchase order and say this is an expense that was not budgeted
for and would like to purchase it. Then
it is the Board of Selectmen’s decision if we want to allow him to use excess
money in line 3 down in line 7. So you
will see him under expended in line 3 and over expended in line 7. There is a check and balance.
Carol stated that it is not
right if we say no to something, then he should not be allowed to buy it just
because he has extra money in his budget.
Peter stated that he understands Carol point, but if there is money in
the budget, then he does not want to rewrite money next year for something that
can be purchase this year if the funds are available.
Jason stated that they had
an asbestos problem at both schools, and had rugs put in over the tiles. There was a huge return at the end of the
past year and we had to do something with the asbestos, it was not something
that was discussed with the Budget Committee in the past but was something that
really needed to be done. The School
Board made the decision to have the work done.
Dave made a motion to
nominate Dennis Carmichael to the Board, Phyllis seconded. The motion passed unanimously.
Peter stated he understands
Carol’s point, but it is just like the frustration of the budget and the
Municipal Budget Act when it comes to work detail for the PD. It makes no sense to raise $2,000 of taxpayer
money to fund the Police Detail line when we know that every police detail that
is worked on will be reimbursed to the Town.
Kelley apologized for the
mix up with the Fire Chief. Jennifer
stated that this is a good exercise tonight.
Peter stated that there are only eight lines that he really has to talk
about.
Phyllis made a motion to
recess, Carol seconded. The meeting
recessed at
NOTE: Although these minutes may contain direct quotes, they are not verbatim. Many sections contain a general description of the remarks of the participants as interpreted as both indicated and not indicated by the transcriber and should not be relied upon as the actual intent of the participant’s statement. Additionally, many statements have been omitted, condensed and generalized based on the interpretations of the transcriber as to its relevance, content, specificity, accuracy, and/or conformity to any applicable statute. The transcriber assumes no liability for the content of this document.